Ok, soooo I have alot of female friends they tend to speak about relationship stuff with me [why I don’t know] but I have noticed that there are more males out there [well according to how many females I’ve spoken to] that have stepped down in terms of their roles as a men.
Basically, things like handling the bill, holding a job and being able to handle your own as a guy. Now I’ve heard ridiculous statements like the girl paying for everything including the guy’s rent and car installments. And this is not a sugar momma situation. The question is are men losing their grip in the jest of things? Picture
its not so much losing their grip i think its more bout adjusting to the fact that some ladies can hold their own n if she can pay the bills let her. its a matter of the role of a man has been redefined in some cases.
We have struggled with role play/change to say what is acceptable and whats not. Communication they say is key,i am afraid at times you may communicate it badly so we don't speak up. Really there are brothers who are battling and then those who just say you chose the place you pay.Since when i dont know?I haven't dated much but through nonverbal behavior i picked up that if i choose/suggest i pay. Eventually i decided never to go out. It's quiet embarrassing when i take my purse out in front of friends when their boyfriends are paying and i ask whats ours i mean really?
Men and women are to blame as we have blurred the lines and struggle to explain what is and what is not.
Getting paid less than her should not be a excuse and expenses should not be an excuse.But this is just me folks .I fail to make the line clear as it is!
ideally if he can afford to pay the bill he shud but i don mind sharing nor covering the bill if i suggested we go out. roles within a relationship are not as clearly defined as they were previously which is where i agree with Mbali that communication is key so that we both know where we stand and whats acceptable and whats not. if by my paying the bill u feel like u stepping down from ur role all u gotta do is let a sister know.
relationships are complex n like GG said maobane, they hard to maintain as well.
All im saying as a guy you need to be able to handle your own - be able to survive on your own accord. Yes i will get broke at some point ... but you as my girl you should be last resort - thats after i chased clients who owe me money and friends who i lend money when they are down.
*im just saying
i don no, i wanna feel comfortable asking for my mans help financially and i want him to fel the same way too. its a good feeling knowing that he is comfortable with the idea of me having his back. why shud i, as ur gal, be ur last resort????
so that i dont get comfortable with her helping me out all the time. Me being able to sort it out by myself and my own ways. Now if you depend on each other for everything - what happens when you are both broke and cant help each other.
I will come to you --- but i will when everything that ive tried fails. I need to fail on my own first then you can come and catch me
Truelly speaking I think we have touched on the demise in the importance of a male role in life. I for one really don't mind being viewed as backward in my point of view of a relationship.
Provide, Protect, reProduce... the three main important roles of a male in a relationship. same as for a woman, but these would apply in different levels for either. With the adaptation of relationships from a fictional character like hollywood that has no flaws I think we have missed the point of it all.
The idea of a woman paying for me (regardless of who she is to me or how long we've been together) still freaks the hell out of me as I am only four years deep into it. Thats one less thing I am usefull for.
Due to this demise we were more than bound to come across a phase that had men playing the lesser role.
@All-The- Way-To --- Yoh! nuff said yoh! if im broke i try not go out ... if she pays for me - im my mind i owe her one. Atleast lets go 50/50 on the bill - that i dont mind either ... actually the bill is a small matter here - i would like to know when/what happens when now she pays for YOUR car installments?
I think thats a crazy ass favour dude. Like honestly I have noticed guys I know brag about that. Like there are tactics to it. They seem to believe they paying back for all them dudes that got played and all the times they ever spent money on women. I know a guyty living off better than me but he dont work. he has three women paying for everything. I mean EVERYTHING.
Those are cases of stupidity sprinkled with a lot of ignorance though. Nothing open minded about that decision.
For real??? Gawd Damn! yoh! but i also blame the women who pay for these things. They are actually spoiling them [guys] then you guys complain when its not working out at the end. SMH *hard!!!!
SMH! *hard!!!! to guys who brag about such.
ok paying for the bill is one thing mara paying for his car is totally out. iyo cant blv there are gals who do that.
SMH! *hard!!!! too
for nna personally, a women paying for anything is out, I mean it goes against all unwritten laws of being a man, we are Protectors and Providers but hey it doesn't hurt for a woman to pick up the bill once or twice in a while.
it would be interesting to get a girl who pays/payed for a guys rent or car installment - maybe they have a better insight in terms of what led them to such actions, no?
off the top of my head, the rational would be 'LOVE'
hmmm, you could be right - phela love is blind. right?
so they say... personally I say love is not blind nor deaf
we have attacked them by our statements so they would either insult us by calling us insecure or cry out prejudice to defend themselves.
Ow just off the topic. someone pposed this topic today he had a fall out with his girl.
"If a woman when angry expresses her right by slapping punching and screaming at me. Why is it wrong for me as a man to display my anger back the best way I know how to."
(his best way was him beating the living light bulbs out of her, luckily only a fractured rib and an assault charge, could have been worse)
that should make an interesting topic for us to tackle one day, this is a platform for those kind of topics to be addressed.
i agree le kabelo, love is not deaf nor blind, we just choose to be ignorant.
@All-The- Way-To --- we once had a debate about that, now to make it more interesting, how far does this gender equality stretch? do we still say ladies 1st, open doors, pull chairs? If we are equal, what's the use, maybe women should start pulling chairs for us ---
And to send it into a spiral, we wont be stepping down from our roles if we are indeed equal ---
My point is, women general go with what suites their situation ---
I dont know if y'all get me
we will never be equal, but what u saying is true, we want equality when it suits us. personally i want him to still pull my chair, open doors for me etc but i also wanna pay for the bill every now n den.
mhh, its complex this thing i guess
My 2c:
I think this whole topic has been way skewed. Some women tend to use the whole "man's role" when it suits them and then shift the goal posts to "I got my own back" when its suitable to do so. On the other hand men that find it difficult to accept a woman paying for anything tend to get intimidated by women that are more paid. I'm just saying tho, :)
On a serious note, different relations have their nuances and I don't think the one set of rules apply for all scenarios. Couples should decide what works for them: communication.
ooh, one other thing, just because she can pay for stuff (and she actually does) because she's more monied does not exempt the dude from doing what he can for her with what he's got. Its not all about money, its about the effort, at least I think.
If she can afford to take you to Pigale, prepare a home cooked meal for her.
@The-Duke-Of-PLK --- I feel you hombre, on point --- My question is what exactly is the role of man in a relationship, its funny how it always back to loot, and people say money can't buy you love
It depends I know women who pay rent, cook, clean do everything for their men and what they get in return is a man who comes home drunk or goes out with friends. Once a woman starts paying for rent, installments ect you should know there is a motive behind and mostly it has nothing to do with her really being inlove.
@Kanye --- school us please, what motives are you refering to
ow yeah this is quite enticing.
@Kabelo. I am glad you pointed the most crucial part about the whole conversation.
We were lucky cause our pos or at the very least our grand dads are old school niggas and we got a chance to watch them do their thing. This is mostly the reason why the male role has change because even us dudes didnt entirely agree with some of the stuff they did.
But now the generation we are giving birth to will not get the chance to view we saw and hence confusion will occur and with confusion comes panick which ultimately gives birth to war.
So going forward from the mistakes the old tymas made how have we structured ourselves as a male figure?
What I have learnt with the obsession of refering to the past is that elders made a decidion according to the circumstances and stuck to it, should your situation not be able to accomodate it you as an elder and most importantly one responsible for your life you changed it.
So its a case of make do with what you got.
@All-The- Way-To , I think the old-school way is the best way to go, but society keeps changing and so do the rules of engagement, maybe 1 of the ladies should tell us what in her view the role of a man is in a relationship.
Motives well most, the black women I know want to get married they desperate no matter what and when she does that, she believes no chick would tolerate the ish she does so the dude is bound to stay with her. Cos he can't do stuff without her, its as if his dependent on her
WOW! sooooooo all of this boils down to tolarance? hmm and marriage ofcourse, now i kinda makes sense. i know that alot are desperate to get married and stuff. hmmmm --- but now, do the guys eventually marry those girls?
*we ponder on this
my view: role of a man is to lead, provide, protect and basically be in the moment as in be present and not forgetin that he had to follow God.
You know how guys are, they lie to them but don't want toi leave. With others its about power and status if they church members and doctors for example. Environment plays a role
Cant do anything without God.
Exactly and women tend to substitute God and replace them with their men. And make demands on their men and men can't give them that. Ppl use words like he completes me; how can a man complete u.
true though! you have to be complete with yourself first before - you can unite with someone else.
I have a problem with that line of argument. When a person says "you complete me", I don't think there is any reference to them not being content with themselves nor replacing God with men/women. I think people's statements are taken out of context for our own arguments when that is not what they intended to say in the first place. Its like saying someone is my beter half; literally we know its impossible but its a figure of speech for goodness sake.
Men's roles have changed because Women's roles have changed -- problem is, we haven't caught up and readjusted our roles.
The world we live in has afforded them Edumcashun > Access to Wealth. This means they can DO for themselves. It unfortunately means that they don't NEED men to provide for them.
They provide for themselves, they have Chubb to protect, they have banks to reProduce (some choose not to reProduce). Lol. So Marriage is obsolete (in the sense of need ).
But it sure feels good to be WANTED y'all. I ain't gon' lie --
I'd rather have a woman that wants me than needs me any day -- but I digress ...
Men just have to adjust their roles to something akin to partnering, collaboration -- togetherness [ke ntho e nice no?]
Equality is out of the question. Nature didn't make us equal. So there is a place for men . Even if they have the guy at the Chubb Control Room that they pay to "protect" them physically, it's not the same as "feeling safe". That's something that your presence, and comfort can provide for her.
As for the dudes that "make" women cover their expenses -- they're not men, I do not speak of them.
Jaz broke it down perfectly for me. and as matome said, having someone that completes you dont mean u not content, true that. personally though i dont believe in my partner being my 'better half' but in him being my 'complementary half'.
to answer Kabelo, i dont think any lady can fully break it down with regards to what the role of her man is and shud be. ideally he shud PROVIDE (but let me contrbute too), PROTECT (yes i subscribe to chubb but i love the sense of security being with u gives me), rePRODUCE (yeah in the next six yrs id love to have the 1st of my 4 kids).
all those roles that u shud play as a man are still there, i still NEED them but not in their entirety i guess.
hahahahaha I like the Chubb anology Jaz --- Just made me think of the insurance company 1st for women --- have you seen the people who drive them road-side assistance bemmas, they all men, women just want power without responsibility that's what I think
Ya it could be true matomeb but people have done ridiculous things bcz of such, some commit suicide and some destroy each other, I'm just saying. Kabelo as a woman, I believe we do take resopsibility that comes with power or otherwise.
Jaz I hear you but I think we all have reached that stage of understanding. Now we are caught in an awkward position of knowing where we need to adjust and how we should adjust. We all know change has to be done, but where is that change supposed to happen and how long?
If she's subscribe to CHUBB then does that mean CHUBB is gonna be there when she wakes up from a nightmare and is shit scared?
CHUBB only protects or rather tries to defend one after the threat to their lives have occured. Bad dreams are not a threat and mere insecurity in a place they not used to doesn't qualify either.
What NguJaz said!
heard this song over the weekend n i thot of this thread:
But it's only fair
That I let you know that
The man you're in love with
He;s mine
From the top of his head
To the bottom of his feet
The bed he sleeps in and
Every piece of food he eats
you see I make it possible
The clothes on his back
Ha ha, I buy them
The car he drives
I pay the note every month
So I'm telling you these things
To let you know how much
I love this man and woman to woman
I think you'll understand
How much I'll do to keep him
Shirley Brown - Woman to Woman #ttby
*giggles then hides